Sorry, you just described blue state central. Liberals protect their environment, live together in large groups and are tolerant (no dry liberal counties). Conservative people believe in the right to strip mine. They love nascar and hate drinking.

Maybe you should just liberal up a bit.

Liberals are *tolerant*? Are you kidding me? Yeah, that's why no one around here could have any Bush/Cheney stuff up without it getting it ripped down or ripped off.

I'm not sure that anyone loves NASCAR but hates drinking.

Cleveland. Cheap, Lake Erie, Cavs, world-class orchestra..... Try us, you'll like us....

I share your sentiments. I'm in Madison temporarily in graduate school and can't wait to get done. Omaha, Nebraska is a great place to live. It meets most of your criteria, but is obviously not near an ocean or a lake, though it is on the Missouri River. It has a very low cost of living. No Pro sports teams, though the Cornhuskers are one of the top college football teams in the nation. It definitely has four seasons, but in general is quite a bit warmer than Madison. Nebraska has lots of outdoor activities and lots of natural beauty (it's a big state with little development, except for Omaha and Lincoln). Omaha leans Republican, though is much more even politically than Madison. Oh, and the people are nice.

kris, I find it somewhat ironic that you want to get out of Madison at the same time I'm trying to get IN.. I spend a lot of time in Madison these days.. about every other weekend.. so I'm very familiar with the aesthetics around you.. Madison is a gorgeous area, with the two lakes and lots of trees

have you considered just moving a bit out of town? Fitchburg, Middleton and Sun Prairie aren't bad.. and not the typical 'tolerant liberal havens' where anything pro-Bush is scoffed at and vandalized

I've been checking out places all over the US for the past 5 years, looking for someplace else to settle in.. with exactly the same criteria as you.. altho I've added proximity to mountains and trout streams.. but so far my favorite places are Salt Lake City (altho perhaps TOO conservative), Raleigh NC (a great place if you want to avoid Wisconsin winters), Tahoe NV, and some parts of Oregon and Washington.. altho that might be putting you back in a liberal hotspot again

or, if you want to just switch jobs, you can come to Sheboygan.. it's the 4th Best City in the country to find a rich single guy, according to some Manhattan marketing group

OK...assmuing you can't have everything (where would you put it), I'd suggest San Diego.

San Diego county was RED in the last election.

It's expensive, and they don't really have winter...but if you LIKE to rake leaves and you LIKE to shovel snow, maybe you SHOULD stay in freakin' Madison! :)

Other choices may be:

Reno, NV
Salt Lake City, UT (but I hear the Lake smells)
Albuquerque, NM (water? sports?)
Boise, ID

Good luck!

Everything's relative...every time I start to bemoan the "blue"ness here, I remind myself that it's nothing compared to San Francisco, where I used to live. And hey! my kids are learning valuable lessons about being a political minority. Stay, and make this wonderful city better.

I share a similar plight here in Austin. It's a great city, with lots of lakes and trees, and of course, is home to my beloved Longhorns. But the wacky libs drive me crazy. I can tolerate them, though, because I live up north (aka "South Dallas"), the more conservative portion of town.

I'll agree that Omaha is a pretty nice town, based on the few visits I've had there. It's especially fun during the College World Series. Dallas is nice once you strip away a layer of it pretensiousness. It's just a little too big for a small-town Texas boy.

How about Tulsa OK.

1. The metro area should have a population of at least 100,000. ** CHECK - about 400,000 **

2. It needs to be by a body of water (oceans, lakes and rivers, NOT some alleged "creek" like they have in Denver). ** CHECK - Many GOOD lakes within an hour... Grand, Keystone, Eufala, Ft Gibson...Arkansas River as a bonus **

3. Four seasons are desirable, but not necessary. ** CHECK - All 4 seasons are regularly available, Winters are mildish, but can get nasty every 5 or 10 years **

4. The more sunny days, the better. ** CHECK **

5. No traditional liberal enclaves please. I'm already in one. The area doesn't need to vote Republican every election, but it should be more evenly split than here (so anything below 90% liberal would be an improvement). ** CHECK - Solid Red state, but there are enough liberals to antagonize **

6. It shouldn't be ridiculously expensive to live there. ** CHECK **

7. Pro sports or major college teams are a bonus. Top class thoroughbred racing is a triple bonus.
** CHECK - Tulsa Univ for basketball, Sooners or Cowboys in college football (1-2 hrs away), Arena football, hockey...(no pro teams is the downside...gotta go to Dallas or Kansas City for that) - also, horseracing within 2 hours, Indian Casinos also plentiful if you like to lose money that way **

8. Lots of outdoor activities should be easily available. ** CHECK **

9. Nothing too extreme, so no dry counties or anything crazy like that. ** CHECK Buckle of the Bible belt, but nothing too extreme...drink up **

10. Natural beauty is a huge bonus. I'm very much about the aesthetic of my surroundings. ** CHECK - also known as 'Green Country' **

11. Extra points if you can assure me that the city has a Packer bar somewhere. ** My son is a cheesehead, but not much help there **

more info: http://www.shgresources.com/ok/almanac/

Good Luck!

I'd recommend Jacksonville, FL: Almost 750,000 people in the city itself (which is incorporated with Duval County except for four smaller communities). You get your pick of the St. Johns River or Atlantic Ocean for water. Winter is mild, but you get snow once or twice a decade. Lots of sunny days. Most of the people are conservative Dixiecrats and trending Republican. Cost of living is very reasonable unless you want to live very near the beach. Home to the Jaguars pro football team plus minor league baseball and ice hockey teams. Lots of outdoor activities, whether you are nautically inclined or prefer dry feet. Beer and wine available in convenience and grocery stores, hard liquor in state-licensed "ABC" stores. The surrounding areas (not downtown) are all very pretty. Google reports a Packer bar on Beach Blvd but I cannot confirm that.

Fox Cities, WI (Appleton, Neenah, Menasha, etc)Metro area well over 100,000. Appleton has a great minor league baseball stadium, a year old Performing Arts Center, very scenic, etc. Appleton is 30 mi south of Green Bay and 30 minutes north of Oshkosh. Green Bay has the Packers (even though you can't get tickets it is still great to live this close). You can volunteer to vend in the stands for a charity to see some of the game and soak up the atmosphere. 2 hours away from Madison and Milwaukee so close enough to spend a day or weekend in either. Pretty solid red but enough liberal influence from the unions and Lawrence University to make it interesting. Also just rated as the safest metro area in the US.

I grew up in Madison so it will always have a special place in my heart. But now that I have kids, no way do I want them growing up there. I have also lived in Michigan and enjoyed the time we lived in Grand Rapids. GR is very, very conservative.

Of all the places I have lived I like Appleton the best.

O.K.,

Many good suggestions. I live in the Madison area and am a transplant from the Minneapolis/St. Paul area living in Wisconsin for the last 8 years in Madison and surrounding "communities". I am suggesting that first staying here because we need to keep up the fight.
Second, as some have mentioned above, there are many areas of Wisconsin that have more conservative thinking than others.
But, if you must go for your sanity, I am putting in a plug for the southern twin city area. There are almost as many lakes there as there are here in WI. The area has a large population center in the cities with suburban areas surrounding so you have the benefits of big and small town America.

Housing is a plenty with a variety of choices. Job opportunities good.
Weather is very close to WI perhaps a bit colder depending upon were you live.
Lake Superior is two to three hours north.
Mille Lacs Lake is a huge lake about two hours north of the cities.
There are several Packer bars around since they were the first team in the area, there are many diehards around.
And.....there is a horse track in Shokopee
http://www.canterburypark.com/ just south of the city.
I still think you should stay in WI. We need all the help we can get here and there are liberals almost anywhere you go.
Best of luck.
Blog General

I lived in Appleton for a few years.. it's ok.. lots of shopping.. a few decent restaurants.. a new PAC.. a semi-pro baseball team.. close to Green Bay (for a taste of real culture) and fairly close to Milwaukee

the cost of living is cheap and it's fairly conservative.. the only thing I don't like about it is the attitude of the people.. they're rather pretentious hicks.. LOL.. they don't really have any 'flavor' of their own.. imagine Madison with all the local culture removed.. that's about what you'd be getting

and the crime rate is a bit higher than what you'd think.. you don't have to worry about getting mugged, but I had 3 cars broken into within a year.. it's all bored suburban kids trying to be tough

but otherwise, it might be worth considering.. it's not too far away, so it makes for an easy move, and you can always spend a weekend in Madison if/when you get homesick

May I suggest Gwinnett County Georgia. Its the NE quadrient of the Atlanta Metro area. Affluent, cosmopolitan but yet still rural in many areas. Has the best county park system in the country for just about any interest. Very affordable housing unlike its NW neighbor Cobb County. Its Red but has a lot of Zell Miller democrats. As for water Lake Lanier, GA's largest lake, borders its north. As for college sports theres GT for all sports but football and there is UGA for football and all sports as well. Where else will you have 10,000 for a college women's gymnastic meet. While its not thoroughbred racing we do have the steeplechase. And the Atlanat nightlife is only 30 minutes away.

By the sound of it, you have already decided to move to my hometown of Louisville, KY, whether you realize it or not. It meets every one of your requirements:

1. The metro area should have a population of at least 100,000.

- 16th largest city in the US.

2. It needs to be by a body of water (oceans, lakes and rivers, NOT some alleged "creek" like they have in Denver).

- In theory, the Ohio River is comprised mostly of water.

3. Four seasons are desirable, but not necessary.

- Oh, we have those. I don't much care for the winters, but coming from WI, they'd seem mild to you.

4. The more sunny days, the better.

- Spring and summer are gorgeous here. We get rain, but it's not usually the kind that goes on for days and days.

5. No traditional liberal enclaves please. I'm already in one. The area doesn't need to vote Republican every election, but it should be more evenly split than here (so anything below 90% liberal would be an improvement).

- We have plenty of liberals, to be sure. But we're represented by a Republican in the US House (who just won her 5th race by 22%) and have 2 Republican Senators, a Republican Governor, and a Republican State Senate.

6. It shouldn't be ridiculously expensive to live there.

- I think you'll find Louisville remarkably moderate in terms of cost of living.

7. Pro sports or major college teams are a bonus. Top class thoroughbred racing is a triple bonus.

- I don't think I need to remind you of University of Louisville basketball, the rising football team (#7 last week, they're only loss this season coming to Miami, on the road, by 3 pts). And, of course, thoroughbred racing doesn't get any more major than Churchill Downs and the Kentucky Derby.

8. Lots of outdoor activities should be easily available.

- An extensive system of parks designed by Frederick Law Olmstead; national forests, Cumberland Lake, skiing, Mammoth Cave, &c within easy driving distance; and even free outdoor Shakespeare all summer. We've got this covered.

9. Nothing too extreme, so no dry counties or anything crazy like that.

- There are dry counties in the area, but ours isn't one of them.

10. Natural beauty is a huge bonus. I'm very much about the aesthetic of my surroundings.

- It's Kentucky. We're swimming in this.

11. Extra points if you can assure me that the city has a Packer bar somewhere.

- Why, yes, there is.

Come down and check it out. I'll show you around. :-)

SAN ANTONIO DUDE! MY FAVORITE CITY IN TEXAS!

Central Florida on either coast - Tampa, Sarasota, Daytona come to mind.

Madison is an island. "10 square miles surrounded by reality" or something. Im here as a student and grew up an hour away where it is the exact opposite (from the county presidential vote that is).

I've heard that madison hasn't always been liberal. I've only been here two years though.

Jacksonville, Fla is a shithole. Don't go there. Come here to Columbia, South Carolina. Why?

1. We broke 116k in the 2k census.

2. We have Lake Murray, a seventy-eight square mile resivoir outside the city limits, and one of the coolest colonial towns, Charleston, sits on the Atlantic only 1.5 hours away (Hang on Sullivan's Island, it's laid back)

3. We have 'em. If you like warm and sunny, we do fine. Snows a couple days in the year, a little humid during the summer, but generally nice for the south.

4. See 3.

5. W stickers outnumbered Kerry about 5-1.

6. A nice 3br home in a good area costs as little as 90k.

7. We've got the fucking Gamecocks, and they have fucking Steve Spurrier. It's an exciting time for football fans here. Horse racing, not so much. There's a big one not far from here, not sure what it is. Everybody dresses up nice and goes and gets wasted while watching it, but I can't remember what it's called.

8. Columbia is bracketed on the left and bottom by large rivers and their banks aren't built up at all. The only recreation on them is kayaking and hiking.

9. We have mini-bottles (better shots, worse mixed drinks), and you can't buy alcohol in stores on Sunday. However, it's open fucken season in restaurants and bars. Closing time is 2AM, 4AM on Friday's, and the after-hours bars go until sunup.

10. See 8. There's only one real industrial area, and it's out of the way. The slummy areas are few and far between. If you're interested, check out some of the satelite imaging available free on the web. You'll easily see how much natural area is left undeveloped nearby.

11. I don't know what a Packer bar is, exactly (not a regular reader). But we got some cool places with all types of people. The college kids hang out in Five Points, an area with about 20 different bars (dance clubs, whisky bars, hangouts, meat markets, etc). The young professionals hang out in the Vista, an area with about the same number of bars. West Vista also has a laid-back sports bar and a venue for alternative bands. One of the best is the Flying Saucer, which has about 100 beers on tap and 2x in bottles, and all the waitresses are college girls in schoolgirl outfits. Remember, W stickers outnumber Kerry's by 5-1, and bars stay open till 4am on Fridays. Do the math.

McGurk.. a Packer Bar is like a sports bar, only dedicated primarily to the Green Bay Packers.. of course EVERY bar in WI is one (except for a few renegade Bears bars near Kenosha).. but it can be just a regular bar where Packer fans can go to watch their team play and cheer and jeer together

btw, I've never been to Columbia, SC, but I have a friend who recently moved there from Milwaukee and loves the area

I have a suggestion along Blog General's line that keeps you right here in Wisconsin: Hudson. It's on the outer limits of the Twin Cities Metro, it's right on the Mississippi, Packer Bars should be easy to find, etc, etc.

Three words:

Raleigh, North Carolina.

look it up. we've got everything you asked for.

Hate Madison? How is it possible to hate my beloved, beautiful, liberal, self-obsessed little hometown?
I wish I still lived there.
Kris, I'm not very familiar with your site, but from the little I've seen there seems to be a sub-theme running through it about your looking for a hot man (apologies if I’ve got this wrong), so I'm going to frame your search for a city in terms of guys.
Kris, it may be that city/man wise you are dreaming of a card carrying GOP godlet with a walk-in closet full of Calvin Klein underwear and his own stud farm by the sea (I’m thinking…North Carolina is it, they have debutante balls you know).
But, I swear to you that on his worst, most narrow-liberalish day, a guy who takes you out the Silver Dollar right after an eye rolling evening at a Progressive Dane meeting, and just before he invites you back to his apartment to see his autographed copy of “RADS” (i.e. Madison), knows way, way, way more about having fun than any empathy-impaired fundamentalist in a pink polo shirt you’ll find out there in the big bad world beyond the beltline. This is so even if the polo-shirted man has many tax shelters and is holding a highball.
And if it is religion you are worried about, RELAX - this is Madison. He may own the “Tao of Pooh” but don’t be scared, he’s probably a Lutheran.
And if it is money you are worried about (and honey, it really seems to be), RELAX -this is Madison. He may be wearing St. Vinnie’s, but it’s likely his parent’s live in a FLW designed house in University Heights, from which they happily dole out the cash that paid for his several advanced degrees.

Oh, and as this is Madison, he probably also eats meat and un-ironically drinks MGD.

So, lighten up, put on your tightest vintage t-shirt, head down to The Willy Street Freehouse Bar and have some tequila shots and cigarettes with Madison – it is truly, the most lovable town ever (and also, it is good in bed).

Phoenix. It's a no brainer.