What? No Quebec? No Winnipeg? What about San Jose? They do draw pretty good. Only big league team in San Jose.

Yeah, I could be persuaded on San Jose, but I'm not going to go back in time for Quebec and Winnipeg, although, of course, I'd like to. But really, if I was going to revive a team from the past you know damn well it'd be the Hartford Whalers.

I'm curious why the Dallas Stars would be kept. I could understand L.A. mainly because it is such a big city that you will undoubtedly find enough interested fans to fill an arena. In a similar vein, I could semi-justify (not in there but someone commented) San Jose (if you consider San Fran and Oakland part of their fan base). I know Dallas is big and growing and like the Calif. cities has a lot of northern transplants, but I don't see in that sense justifying keeping their team any more than I do keeping the 2 Florida teams.

I also think that Winnipeg and Quebec should get their teams back. And honestly (and this from a fan in the New York area), we do not need 3 teams in Metro NY. I could understand if Toronto were the size of New York City giving it 3 teams given the passion for hockey in Canada. I would keep the Rangers because they're an Original Six team, but I'm torn on whether the Islanders or the Devils get contracted (or moved to Winnipeg or Quebec).

What's the Islanders' fan base like? I hesitated to contract them because of the 4 Cups, but, maybe I should reconsider. To me, the Devils fans are just far to rabid for them to lose their team. Plus, that's just a strong organization, I don't see a need to change it.

I'm actually pretty happy with this groundswell of support for a team in Quebec. I miss the Nordiques. My friend in Maine still talks about the quarter beer nights there.

As for Dallas, honestly, I felt like that Norris division needed another team. I suppose Colorado could go in that division. They'd certainly have an instant rivalry with Detroit.

I think we could have a nice 24 team league by taking Kris's list, adding San Jose, Quebec, Winnipeg, and Columbus, and subtracting Chicago. The Blackhawks are a horrible franchise, and Chicago is not a hockey town. Columbus appears to be a good thing. The key is to get rid of that Anaheim/Phoenix/Nashville/Carolina/Florida/Tampa/Atlanta garbage.

I'm partial to keeping the Blackhawks, mainly because they have a lot of history behind them. True, they are a horrible franchise, but contraction will free up a lot of talent which will gravitate to the remaining teams. You can augment that by deep-sixing the Capitals from the Patrick Division. Talk about not being a hockey town...the Caps lose less money the longer they don't play!

On the Colorado/Detroit rivalry, that's pretty much cooled ever since LeMieux (Claude, that is) left the Avs. The real rivalry for the Avs these days is with Vancouver, with San Jose close behind.

I dunno, John, my Red Wing friends still hate the Avs and I still hate the Red Wings.

I thought about getting rid of the Caps, but I still have fond memories of them because of Bobby Carpenter (sigh).

The Union would never go for it. It would cost too many jobs.

But it is a good idea. I'd probably keep San Jose.

How about creating two leagues: The NHL and the EHL (put the Expansion teams in the EHL). Then have the winners of each league battle for the Cup.

If the EHL (or the NHL) can't hack it, you can dissolve the league without too much impact on the other.

Listen very carefully...

Dallas has GOT to GO!!!

The only reason those pricks have a team in the FIRST place is because Norm Green pulled an Art Modell before MODELL did!

Ice hockey in TEXAS?! The RODEO is bigger than hockey in Texas! These warped people don't deserve the drama and passion that IS the NHL!!

And...my dear sweet Kris....Devils fans RABID?? Didn't they have a problem selling PLAYOFF tickets a few years ago? I like the Devils, but they are the number THREE team in the area, with a fan base that's comprised of people who can't get Rangers, Isles, or Flyers tix.

Besides...prior to '94, that team was a smoldering hole in the ground. Remember Gretzky's "Mickey Mouse" tag??

I better shaddap. I'll close by saying I actually LIKE the Disney Ducks--their fans were more passionate (!) and knowledgable than the posers at Kings games.

So, you're telling me that David Puddy isn't a representative Devils fan?

I have a soft spot for the Stars because I was in Dallas during the finals in 2000 and I fondly remember drinking at some rooftop bar and watching as fans drove past celebrating and one of them even had an aluminum foil Stanley Cup in the back of their pickup. You've gotta love that.

Besides, I will always hate every Minnesota sports team (with the exception of the Timberwolves and that's just because I think Kevin Garnett is kind of cool) and so I gotta love that MINNESOTA, the self-appointed capital of American hockey, lost their pro team. Sweet.

The Blackhawks are an Original Six team. Contracting them would produce the same kind of outcry (and possible lawsuit) that happened when baseball thought about contracting the Minnesota Twins (who technically are an "original" American League team as they were the Washington Senators until they moved in 1960 and an expansion Senators team was put in their place).

I remember that great run the Islanders had in the late 70s and early 80s and how it helped grow a long dormant hockey base in the NY metro area.

Besides having an Original Six team in the Rangers, it is inevitable you'd always have at least one NHL team in New York (even though weighted for population I consider it a very borderline "hockey town", certainly not one in the sense that Detroit or Buffalo or Boston or almost any Canadian city are) for the same reasons I gave for keeping the L.A. Kings, market size alone would generate an audience (and NY is "wintry/northern" enough that it would probably be at least a somewhat bigger audience than L.A.).

I think this "spark" it what convinced a team to move from Denver of all places, which I would think is a "hockey town" to New Jersey in 1982. But from what I know of friends and all, only people in the New Jersey suburbs really follow the Devils; Long Islanders tend to follow their team, and those in the 5 boros and Connecticut tend to be split between the Rangers and Islanders (though even in the parts of Connecticut right near the NY line many used to follow the Whalers).

Speaking of L.A., size or not, I think it is a total joke that they have 2 teams (I am considering the (I still can't believe they really named a team this) Mighty Ducks to be "LA" the way I consider the Devils and Islanders to be "New York"). Just the name alone gives them reason to go.....can you imagine Major League Baseball naming an expansion team the "Bad News Bears"? In a sense, that's what the NHL did.

Oh yeah, I remember the 2000 Finals....

....NO GOAL!!!

(THAT Finals?? With Brett Hull's skate in the crease in every replay angle??).

I have the same....FEELINGS for Dallas sports teams as you do for Minnesota's. Drew Pearson's blatant pass interference on the "Hail Mary" pass against the Vikings...and NO GOAL!!...it's that undying disdain that actually makes me PROUD I was a Philly fan!!

*sigh* Truth be told, I don't miss hockey anymore...and if it comes back, my passion will be tainted knowing this is the national sport of a nation that doesn't support the war on terror, and that most of its players come from countries who won't support us.

Now....HOW much are tickets again???

Gotta go...I'm gonna warm up for the Canadian national anthem.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

Talent gravitate to the Blackhawks? The spinning merry go round that is the Chicago Blackhawks quickly flings off any talent that tries to hang on. They do have a great history, though. Losing, losing, losing, Bobby Hull, losing, bad trades, losing, bad draft picks, losing, bad coaches, losing, bad GMs, losing, bad free agent signings, losing and more losing.

These days the Avs have nice rivalries with both Vancouver and Edmonton. Detroit / Colorado isn't what it used to be. Quebec has to have a team. If nothing else for the Montreal vs. Quebec playoff series. That and the fleur de lys on the uniforms. Can we at least all agree that Gary Bettman's face should be placed on every toilet seat and urinal in every NHL arena? I can't stand what he has turned the NHL into.

Big Bro, OK so maybe some of the "talent" that can gravitate to the Blackhawks would be a decent GM. :) If not, well...somebody has to lose.

My main problem with Bettman is how he tried to shoehorn the NHL into the NBA's business model. Lots of games, lots of teams, and a tendency to saturate the market. I don't think hockey lends itself to that kind of thing. If anything, I think they should go to an NFL-style model. Fewer teams, fewer games, all with the emphasis on regional contests.

It's kind of amazing that everyone so calmly agrees that the NHL needs to get rid of teams. That's pretty telling.

I think an around 80-game season is still fine, but hockey needs to end sometime in early May at the latest, the season can't be dragging into June as it's hockey and that's just crazy.

Actually, besides contractions, I think the best thing the NHL could do is to get rid of helmets. Yes, go ahead and tell me I'm crazy, but if the helmets come off, the sticks will come down. And who doesn't want to see the long, flowing mullets of our favorite hockey stars?

I'm a fan of fewer games myself. Start the season around Thanksgiving (OUR Thanksgiving, not "theirs"), end it before Memorial Day. Hockey in October is just slightly dumber than hockey in June.

We have to keep helmets, I think; both Steve Moore and Donald Brashear were WEARING helmets in each of their ugly incidents, and they still got concussions.

I like minor league hockey logos. Like the Manitoba Moose. Mooses are funny.

The NHL should go back to the original six.

Better yet, all pro hockey should be Olympics/World Cup style national teams.

This the best thing that could possibly happen to hockey. The owners created this thing, and they have the right to un-create it.

Does the CEO of General Motors or any of the big auto makers, meet with each of their employees to negotiate a new salary? Not bloody likely! If General Motors, The Royal Bank of Canada, or Microsoft turn a 100 billion dollar profit, do they share that with their employees? Not bloody likely! The owner gets the lions share of the profit, because he owns the business...that too hard to follow?

Do these hockey players really believe that they're worth the kind of money they're demanding? Not bloody likely! So the owners are idiots...or are they? Ever run a business...ever heard of operating expenses....must be nice to have a $25 million dollars write off. Now do you get it? It's business my friends...pure and simple. The term sport left hockey along time ago. Oh, sure, maybe in the play offs and the Stanley cup final, some of the players are playing for the love of the game....but other than that watching 80 games of medocrity, but isn't worth it.

We were on the verge of possibly the most exciting 20 game schedule and playoffs in the history of the game. Everyone would start with 10 home and away games. Can you imagine 20 games from the end of the regular season and every team has exactly the same points? They would have been fighting for every inch to come out on top in a 20 game series. But alas, that's not going to happen.

Do these players really think they're going to last this one out? Not blood likely! After these spoiled brats realize that daddy means what he says, they have a number of choices. Still get paid a whack of cash for chasing a little piece of rubber, or sit it out. Reality sucks my friend. Join the millions of us who scratch around to try to make a living, relishing a 3% pay raise. You don't live in the real world, and if $300 K a year isn't enough money, I would suggest that you don't know how to budget very well.

You may as well have taken this latest offer, because if I were an owner I'd be coming back to the table offering less that they put out this time. It's a bummer to get paid what you're real worth...trust us...we know!!!!!

Rod raises some very good points.

I have no problem with players being paid what they are worth. To be fair (and this is coming from a guy who played amateur and intramural in school), hockey is a hard goddamn game to play. It's even harder to play it well. It was hard for me, and it's about fifty thousand times harder at the NHL level. It simply takes a huge amount of talent and no small degree of dedication to play the game at a competitive level. For that reason I don't want to say the guys on the ice don't love the game. You have to love it if you're going to play and practice as much as these guys do. My first wife was a concert violist, and she literally practiced eight hours a day. I once asked her if it was a lot of work, and she said no because she loved the music so much (or whatever it is you call the sounds coming out of a viola). She'd be playing even if she weren't a professional musician.

With all that said, there's a supply and demand issue. The big elephant in the room is that there simply isn't enough of that talent to go around. So we have rich teams able to bid the price up on the truly talented players...the Forsbergs, the Sakics, the Brodeurs. Then we have "poor" teams fighting over the leftovers. This imbalance leads to interesting situations such as the Chicago Blackhawks.

So a balance has to be struck somehow. Obviously it's the owner's team and he has to make money. Similarly, the player should be able to earn whatever the market will bear. The problem is there's disconnect between the profits of the team and the earnings of the players, with the result being teams that are losing less money by not playing. Believe me, the majority of owners have no incentive to rush to a season...they were severely hemmorraging money before this all started.

So in a pure market sense I vigorously oppose salary caps. But in order to save the NHL, it makes sense as a short-term solution. But I heartily agree with Kris and others on this thread...a long term solution has to involve whittling the league down from 30 teams.