Quote of the Day
March 13, 2005
Posted by kris at March 13, 2005 09:27 AM
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Victor Davis Hanson has an excellent column reviewing the success and failure of American policies since 9/11. I'm really drawn to this quote:
The Middle East is in flux, as the autocracies in Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia reel from the earthquakes in Afghanistan and Iraq. Like it or not, this is not the time for half-measures, but rather the hour for a uniform American policy that promotes democratic reform and thus predicates our aid, weapons, friendship — almost everything — on the degree to which Middle Eastern societies are free.
This what the Bush Doctrine will be known for: the faith that a free people will prosper and will no longer be a threat to the outside world.
A couple of weeks ago, James, John and I (as well as many of our readers) took a Moral Politics Test to visually see where we all fell on the political axis. James noticed that on the shorter two-question test that the only way to get into the Republican category was to say that most or all people are fundamentally bad. I think that notion is fundamentally flawed. And this just perfectly illustrates why. Conservatives believe that, if freed, most people will do good things and reject terrorism and fundamentalism.
This is still a pretty radical notion, as Hanson says:
How odd that conservatives, usually derided for their multicultural insensitivity and blinkered approach to the world abroad, had far more confidence in the Arab street than did liberals at home and Euro elites who patronized Arabs as nice "others" who were "different" rather than oppressed by murderous thugs in the manner of former Russians, Hungarians, Bosnians, and Afghans.
Let's hope that the Arab spring blossoms into a full blown summer. If it does, the world will be a much safer, freer place for us all.
Posted by kris at March 13, 2005 09:27 AM
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Comments
| # March 13th, 2005 11:45 AM tubino |
| US conservatives backed the tyrannies of Suharto, Pinochet, Somoza, etc., not to mention the Saudi regime.
Conservatives don't trust or respect the democratic will expressed by the Germans, French, Spaniards, Turks, etc. Immediately after 9-11, leftists timidly wondered if maybe the US support for tyrannies was coming home to roost. Now, after YEARS, the conservatives are spouting the rather obvious point that a people who blame the US for their oppression just MIGHT not be a good symptom of US policy. That’s fine, but all these contortions to claim this notion for themselves are TOO MUCH. What’s next – looking at the causes of Palestinian terrorism, and claiming that as a conservative cause? |
| # March 13th, 2005 12:00 PM james |
| umm, i think you mean "US governments" not "US conservatives."
all this contortion you're doing to paint conservatives as always evil and the left as always pure is TOO MUCH |
| # March 13th, 2005 12:13 PM kris |
| Yes, clearly conservatives don't respect the democratically elected govts of, for example, Spain & France. That's why we spearheaded the calls for an invasion of Spain following last year's election there.
There's a big difference between not *agreeing* with what that population has democratically chosen to do and not respecting it. How is what I may think of France or Spain's govt. any different than the UK papers printing stories about how stupid the American electorate is after our elections. i know it's really hard for liberals to deal with good news now. i'm ever so sorry for you. |
| # March 13th, 2005 7:26 PM tubino |
| kris,
The Bush admin pressured the Turkish govt to contradict the will of its people. The Bush admin rewarded Spain and Italy for contradicting the will of its people, and still wants to make Germany and France pay for NOT contradicting the will of its people. Get it now? james, the US left did not support Somoza, but US conservatives did. Who bombed Cambodia? Who trusted the will of the poeple in El Salvador? God you folks need a history lesson very very badly. |
| # March 13th, 2005 7:30 PM tubino |
| Let me guess: you all conveniently forgot that Bush had to be persuaded by Sistani to push for elections in Iraq, right??? |
| # March 13th, 2005 9:27 PM Daddy |
| Hey Tubby,
You just don't throw around quotes like this: The Bush admin pressured the Turkish govt to contradict the will of its people. The Bush admin rewarded Spain and Italy for contradicting the will of its people, and still wants to make Germany and France pay for NOT contradicting the will of its people. ....and get a free pass. Give me specific examples. If you can't take 5 minutes to support your arguments, you're just another asshat, and will be treated as such. Oh....have you seen our tournament pool? Wanna get in? :) |
| # March 13th, 2005 9:34 PM kris |
| heh. yeah, the pool is non-partisan. that's one nice thing about the sports world. |
| # March 13th, 2005 10:17 PM tubino |
| Daddy,
Are you saying that you are unaware of the US pressure on Turkey to allow US troops to pass through to Iraq, despite overwhelming popular opposition? You don't remember that? And you completely forgot about diplomatic pressures on France to go along in the Security Council with the US on Iraq? You actually forgot all that? Jeez. Imagine if I actually went back a bit. Tell you what. The argument here is that conservatives trust those on the Arab street more than liberals do, right? Take a minute to give me a few examples, okay? Cuz what I know about US conservative support for Saddam, the Shah of Iran, etc. etc. isn't helping me make your case. Boneheads. |
| # March 14th, 2005 7:00 AM JohnTant |
Tubino, I think Daddy is asking where the "reward" part came in. To refresh everyone's memory, you wrote (with my emphasis added):
The Bush admin pressured the Turkish govt to contradict the will of its people. The Bush admin rewarded Spain and Italy for contradicting the will of its people, and still wants to make Germany and France pay for NOT contradicting the will of its people. OK, so the Bush Administration, per your statement, "rewarded" Spain and Italy for going along. What was the "reward?" Similarly, what was the punishment levied against Germany and France? In re your larger point, in international affairs "diplomatic pressure" is a matter of course and certainly not unusual. In fact, France and Germany were exerting a tremendous amount of "diplomatic pressure" against the United States, despite the 75% of Americans who were in favor of taking on Hussein...to me it seems they were trying to get the US government to contradict the will of OUR people... |
| # March 14th, 2005 8:59 AM BrianH |
| Tubino are you serious?
"Let me guess: you all conveniently forgot that Bush had to be persuaded by Sistani to push for elections in Iraq, right???" As I remember it, Bush was pushing for free elections in Iraq as soon as we ousted the old government. There was pressure from the UN and your precious France and Germany to delay the elections....... Turkey had agreed to let us send the 4th ID into northern Iraq from Turkey, but then reneged on the deal. We didn't override the will of their people, we respected it even though it caused a complete change in strategy. |
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