Fairfax County : Why Are We Paying Taxes?
April 01, 2005
Posted by John Tant at April 1, 2005 07:33 AM
The trackback entry for this page is : http://www.inthehat.com/mt/mt-tb.cgi/794
I wrote about this once upon a time, but I'll write about it here as well.
In Northern Virginia, we have a fun county...Fairfax County. This is where the overflow from liberal Arlington County lives, and is home to some pretty spectacular real estate. It's also home to some of the most tax-happy officials I've ever had the misfortune to live under. Combine that with Governor Mark Warner's, well, lies about his tax program, and a statewide unnecessary $1 billion tax increase, and the stage is set for the latest doofusism.
Starting today, in Fairfax county, if you need an ambulance ride you're going to be charged up to $550, plus $7.50/mile.
That's right. That is not a misprint. An indisputably public service...a freaking AMBULANCE ride, will now carry with it a price tag.
The economist in me kind of understands this. Services should be paid for by the people using them, right? It's that kind of rationale that girds arguments against using property taxes to pay for schools...after all, people with no kids in the public schools shouldn't have to pay for them. Right?
So how can the Fairfax County board argue AGAINST school vouchers yet institute a policy like this?
Now, to be fair County executives are bending over backwards to make some disclaimers:
1) The fee won't be collected up front. That's comforting...as if anyone really thought we were going to have a C.O.D. ambulance service. That's really a non issue.
2) No one will be denied service. OK, because I'm thinking if they did, lawsuit city. And again, I'm thinking no one actually thought they'd refuse to load up a heart attack victim because he's too shaky to write up a check.
3) Medicaid and Medicare will cover the charge in most, cases. And here we get to the nub of it.
This isn't about getting money from the residents to pay for a service. It's about shaking down the Feds! It's about a Fairfax board looking at all that mad phat Medicare money and trying to grease their way into it. But if the patient doesn't have Medicare, no problem! The patient's insurance will cover it! How nice...my premiums are going to go up because Fairfax County is too busy spending my INCREASED property taxes on whatever it is they're spending it on instead of basic services.
That's right. The following quote from the story fills any Fairfax County homeowner with alternating waves of mirth and nausea:
"Everything we're about doing these days is a focused effort to ease the impact on property taxes," [Fairfax County Supervisor T. Dana] Kauffman said. "Whether it's looking at hotel taxes or how fees are applied, it's basically a collective recognition that we can't continue to put it on the homeowners' back."
Yeah, Mr. Kaufman. Everything you're about is in lowering the burden borne by homeowners. That's why my property taxes keep climbing each year. And now that the sales tax on food has recently been reduced, we're waiting for the next round of increases. And that's independent of a state tax increase of a BILLION dollars that resulted in a state surplus of....a BILLION dollars. And in the face of that, you just can't continue to pay for a basic service like EMTs? A staff which is largely volunteer, I might add. Yeah, pull the other one.
This whole thing kind of highlights my disgust with not only the cynical medical system ("Hey, you don't have to pay for it! A third party will! Don't worry about that $550 charge"), but the government here in general. I mean, seriously. Why am I paying taxes? Police service?
Well, Fairfax County police instituted a policy a couple of years ago that if you have a burglar alarm on your place and it issues a "false" alarm, you get the first one free and then you start getting charged by the police for coming out there. But the determinor of the false alarm is...the police. In other words, if an alarm goes off and the police show up, they'll get out and walk around the house. If they don't see something obvious (like a busted-in door) they'll get back in their car and drive away, chalk it up to a false alarm, and charge the homeowner $100. And if he refuses to pay, they won't come out for any subsequent alarms.
Oh, but we have roads, right? Actually, VDOT is complaining about being chronically underfunded. Anyone who drives around Northern Virginia would probably agree...roads are wanting. And yet the Dulles Toll Road is getting a toll increase soon, to pay for an extension spur for the Metrorail system. In other words, we're going to be charged more for using a road we DO use so we can build a Metro line that WON'T be used. To me this is basic...if you need more roads, build more roads. You can start with adding a couple lanes to I-66 through Arlington and lifting HOV restrictions. So the homeowners there don't want a wider highway. Big Deal. I'm a homeowner and I don't care for paying extra tolls and going miles out of my way each morning just so some Arlingtonian can have a private interstate.
And now we have to pay for our ambulances. Meanwhile our taxes are going up under the guise of paying for government. Well, what are we paying for?!?
Posted by John Tant at April 1, 2005 07:33 AM
The trackback entry for this page is : http://www.inthehat.com/mt/mt-tb.cgi/794
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Comments
| # April 1st, 2005 8:07 AM kris |
| John,
Sometimes I think we should all just move to Texas. |
| # April 1st, 2005 10:20 AM countertop |
| John,
As my father in law keeps complaining to me . . . years ago when they first built the Dulels Toll Road they specifically promised to eliminate the toll once the INITIAL COST OF CONSTRUCTION was recovered. That has been recovered many times over by now, FWIW. Here's another dumb tax - I just read in the Examiner this morning that Fairfax County imposes a tax on cell phones. |
| # April 1st, 2005 10:27 AM james |
| don't even get me started on virginia cell phone taxes. i used to work at a large cell phone company where i wrote programs to deal with whacko places like virginia where counties and cities tax based on varying things like
billing address, residence address, call origination area, call destination area, outgoing or incoming call, etc we had places where cities would tax incoming calls, but not if received by a resident, and the county would tax calls originating in the area, unless a separate surcharge was applied, and then the person's residence city would tax usage in another way, etc etc |
| # April 1st, 2005 11:58 AM james |
| each time that i or someone i know has needed ambulance service, there has been a charge of $500-$1000. until today, i was of the assumption that this was standard practice everywhere. (all of my experience with this is within a single county in wisconsin.)
do you happen to know which model is more commonly used? |
| # April 1st, 2005 12:49 PM JohnTant |
| James, I once needed an ambulance (long story). I was never charged by the county in question (Adams County in Colorado) nor was any third party payer. Moving to Denver County the same thing applied...it was a function of local taxes. I think the new Fairfax County model is becoming the norm now.
My main issue isn't so much that the people using the service are being charged for it. It's collecting taxes from the community at large in concurrence with those charges. I would think if ambulances become pay to play that my taxes would be lower. Yet here's Governor Warner complaining about an "antiquated" tax system (a euphemism for "not high enough") and raising taxes. If we could afford basic ambulatory services with our antiquated tax system, how is it with higher taxes we suddenly have to go to turning them into high-rent taxis? Countertop, I only know of one toll road where that promise was actually kept...the Boulder toll road in Colorado. Seems to be a pretty common selling point. Keeping the promise is, however, quite uncommon. |
| # April 1st, 2005 12:56 PM Emiliano |
| A bunch of people with absolutely nothing to do |
| # April 1st, 2005 1:35 PM countertop |
| John,
I'm amazed that the one place they would actually keep that promise is in the most socialist city I've ever had the pleasure of spending time in. James - Whats the best strategy for avoiding the cell phone tax?? If I have the bill mailed to my office (in DC) or second home (in Georgia) will that subvert the system?? |
| # April 1st, 2005 1:37 PM JohnTant |
| Countertop:
well, it *was* about 40 years ago.... |
| # April 1st, 2005 10:56 PM PrncessCat |
| Well, as a Fairfax Co resident...at least I know to be prepared before I need the ambulance (to bend over and take it, that is). |
| # April 2nd, 2005 10:24 AM kdog |
| Don't be misled by the ignorance of one.
1) Fairfax County's ambulance service transports thousands of people that do not live in Fairfax County. Those people are using your taxes to pay for medical treatment they receive. Do you like wasting your tax money on someone from another county or state? I don't. Those people will now pay for the co-pay and their insurance companies will pay the rest. This way the County will recover otherwise lost tax money. 2) You already pay for ambulance transports in your insurance. Had you done the research you would know that it is included and your premiums will not change. Instead of allowing the insurance company to keep the "extra" money, it is now being given to your County. 3) Majority of the area ambulance services already charge for service. In fact if you explore some of the trade websites you will see that there are many more services that charge a lot more. 4) Volunteers---the biggest joke around here. The "volunteers" do abosolutely nothing but drain the system. These volunteers cost thousands of dollars to train and produce no impact on service provided to the county. In fact a typical volunteer does not even participate enough to recover the cost of providing them with the training they need to perform. It would be a tax relief to all to get rid of them completely. Where I live all we have is volunteers. It stinks. There is no gaurentee we will get help if we call for it. In fact there has been several times that houses have burned to the ground or people have died because the volunteers did not respond to the call. Thanks, you volunteers are great (yeah right). If paying for ambulance service will get us a paid department, I'm for it. Your taxes pay for you to have the fire department there in six minutes or less. That doesn't sound like a long time, but try having a heart attack and, at the same time, wondering if an ambulance will show up. Ask anyonew who has had a "true" emergency if they were happy with the response. I'm sure they will tell you that it is well worth the fee. |
| # April 2nd, 2005 12:27 PM james |
| of course i'll leave the refutation to the resident expert, but #2 of the previous comment sounds pretty plainly disproved by simple economics - there ain't no such thing as "extra money" in this biz.
|
| # April 2nd, 2005 10:54 PM KVBigSis |
| Don't feel too bad. Here are the rates for the City of Madison:
Level 1 Level 2 Level 3 City of Madison Resident $350 $450 $550 Non-Resident $500 $600 $700 Mileage @ $7.50/per mile All fees are based on the patient’s medical treatments. Advanced Life Support (ALS) assessments and routine treatments are Level 1. Patients requiring an IV or heart monitor are Level 2 calls. Patients requiring an Advanced Life Support procedure or 3 medications given in an ALS manner are Level 3 calls. |
| # April 4th, 2005 9:25 AM JohnTant |
| kdog, I'll respond by first noting that before you toss the ignorant label, you'd probably do well to mind your own house first. :)
In order: 1) That isn't an argument, it's a rationalization. True, Fairfax County transports a number of people who do not pay taxes in Fairfax County (I don't know about the "thousands," so why not give us a cite and save us all some time? I'll start by noting in 2004 there were 40,949 transports...how many of those were non-FC residents?). But it's also true Fairfax Country transports a number of Fairfax County residents who similarly do not pay a commensurate amount into the system. Plus, the converse of your rationalization similarly holds...Loudoun undoubtedly transports a fair number of Fairfax County residents. But, that's true of lots of things. I'm sure the county jail has quite a few people from other counties or other states. The roads we plow after a snowstorm are likely used by people in other counties. At a certain point, nickel-and-diming that sort of thing costs you more than just being cool about it. In fact, last time I looked (see #4) part of the departmental budget comes from state monies, which kind of torpedoes your point. However, I think you're choosing to argue the wrong issue here. I do not have a problem per se with charging the people who use the ambulance. However, I do have a problem with Fairfax County continually increasing taxes under the guise of paying for services, and then deciding to not only institute a program like this but refuse to lower taxes accordingly. Under the "antiquated" system, my taxes seemed to provide those services pretty well. Now all of a sudden the County just can't pay for them and has to charge the patients? 2) As James said, this is disproved by simply pointing out that one way or another, I'm paying for the transport twice. And while my insurance does pay for transport (although it specifies private transport...) I never had to use it in VA, but again...use it a few times and the premiums WILL go up. It's a law of insurance physics. And again, I'll hasten to point out that the County is double dipping here. Plus, per the story the County will have no problem charging someone without insurance. Oh, they'll "write it off" after a bit, but I don't think they're going to turn down the money if offered. I'll also note that the kinder, gentler collection efforts are predicated on the person being able to "afford to pay." Something tells me if they pick me up and my insurance doesn't cover the tab, they won't have much of a problem calling the tax commission and deciding that, in fact, I can afford to pay.... 3) A non-sequitur. Just because a "majority of the area ambulance services" do something (or charge more) it doesn't make it right. And again, I'll point out quite clearly that if the County wants to charge individual users of a public service like an ambulance, whatever. But don't continue to collect taxes that were originally levied under the guise of paying for that service. 4) Well, thanks for insulting the thousands of volunteers in this country who give of their time and talents to serve, without pay, the fire departments of the US. As a former volunteer myself (Station 13, Dunn Loring) I first have to contest your statement that those volunteers "produce no impact on service provided to the county." Not in my experience, friend. And your analysis of the "costs" of training them is similarly lacking. When I want through my EMT training, I was in a class with quite a few volunteers and some paid guys. The instructors were going to cost the same if they were lecturing 10 people or 50. Getting rid of all the volunteers would not have done much if anything to change those costs. As for my station training, it was all provided by the more experienced volunteers. No tax cost there. Operations are the same. That fire truck is going to cost the same regardless of if the guy driving it is paid or a volunteer. Station rent, utilities, and all of that will likewise be the same. In face, for 2004 out of the $116 million Fairfax County Fire and Rescue budget, barely $1 million is traceable back to volunteers (That's 0.86% of the budget), and much of that one million is amortization of cost. The biggest cost center (at $92 million) comes from Operations, which for reasons cited above are largely fixed. As for the revenues, after having worked more Bingo games than I care to relate, after having gone with others hat in hand to ask residents for donations, and other fund raising, I'm confident in saying the volunteer corps pretty much pays for itself (our ambulance was paid for entirely by donations...no tax dollars used), in monies that are off the FCFRD budget. Thanks for minimizing those efforts. |
| # April 4th, 2005 9:32 AM JohnTant |
| To try and close this essay up...
kdog, I really hate to burst your bubble on your final point, but there is no guarantee you'll get help from a paid department either. I notice your anecdote is free from details, so I'll just point out no less an authority than the Supreme Court ruled that public services, like police departments or fire departments, are under no obligation to help the individual. That's right...you cannot sue the FCFRD for failing to respond to a call. And specifically speaking to your anecdote (where it sounds somewhat rural) and suggestion all the volunteers get deep-sixed, instead of a relatively sizeable staff of volunteers, you'll get a smaller staff of paid firefighters while paying more...and a smaller staff means less ability to respond to calls which means more lives at risk. Sounds to me like the problem you're relating is one of management, and not one of any inherent problems with the volunteer department. That's a problem that won't be fixed by charging patients for their ambulance rides. In your closing paragraph, you paint a very convenient hypothetical. I would first point out that anyone who has had a true emergency will very likely be unhappy with the response no matter what, people being who they are. As a volunteer we were trained with the concept of "reasonableness." For example, a 5-month-old baby could be trapped in a burning building, but if there were unreasonable risk in going in, the firefighters aren't going in. Period. Ask the parents if they're happy with that response...they won't be. But that's harsh reality, and charging for an ambulance ride isn't going to change that. And in your hypothetical, you ignore the marginal effect of the charge on the other side. Suppose your grandfather has some chest tightness but hesitates in calling 911 because he doesn't want to incur an unnecessary charge for the ambulance.....? |
| # April 4th, 2005 11:04 AM kdog |
| I should have known. A typical volunteer who lies to the public about how their donations work. Without the donations and without you, no matter what you think, the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department will continue to operate just fine. But if deception of the civilans is what you're into so be it.
Transporting people who do not live here makes a huge difference. Why should other counties be funded by our citizens (when they are transported) and Fairfax not return the favor? Why should these counties gain $500 a pop, while their citizens create a burden on Fairfax's system, which in turn delay's care to the citizens of Fairfax? I wish they would charge where I live. Maybe the county could afford to create a structured Fire Department, instead of prescription stealing, drug dealing volunteers. I do agree with the "double tax" statement and believe it or not agree with things like school vouchers etc. With all the publicity this subject has been given, I doubt Fairfax will try to enforce the policy against those who can't pay. Now, if your willing to pay then you get what you deserve. I guess in order to keep the premiums down, you will not be calling 9-1-1 for a frivalous transport (the flu, feel me bads, etc.), right? Maybe we could reduce the premiums if we encourage those we know to quit calling 9-1-1 unless it is an emergency. I'm sure if you volunteer as much as you lead people to believe, you can tell 100 stories of 9-1-1 calls that you couldn't believe they called 9-1-1. While on that note, how often do you volunteer operationally? How many hours at a time? How can you say you are as experienced as a career person who is there 24 hours at a time? I find it hard to believe that any volunteer, especially in Fairfax's system, can gain the experience necessary to be a good firefighter. I would imagine that there is a lot of on-the-job training that needs to occur. Probably a lot that you miss. BINGO! Isn't embelzzement a huge problem in volunteer systems? I believe a few years ago, the Annandale Volunteers had the biggest money earning night, the first night after their President left. Hum, convient? Doesn't Bingo just enable the volunteers to make and spend money without ever having to account for it? When was the last time the Dunn Loring VFD was audited? You guys don't conform to any standard when it comes to income and expense. There is no requirement to produce documentation for funds. Yet you guys consistently persuade the public into believing that without you the department would wilter away. I think you are decieving the public just as much as the County is. When it comes to the volunteers, it's the same problem everywhere. It's not like the old days! You guys have to work for a living, just like everyone else. By nature you're unreliable when called, especially in an all volunteer department. I remember a time when the house siren would sound and volunteers were actually allowed to leave work to answer the call. Now the only ones who respond during normal hours are 16 year olds who are on summer break from school or old guys that look like they just got dumped out of Sunrise. The days of volunteers being able to support the 9-1-1 service are coming to a close. Sorry, but they no longer have the impact on saving lives that they once did. Don't worry, I have educated my family enough to know when to call 9-1-1 and when not to. Charge is irrelevant, which I think you will find with most people. |
| # April 4th, 2005 1:09 PM JohnTant |
Well, I'll go ahead and fisk a little.
I should have known. A typical volunteer who lies to the public about how their donations work. Without the donations and without you, no matter what you think, the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department will continue to operate just fine. But if deception of the civilans is what you're into so be it. Well, you skipped from "ignorance" to flat out accusing me of lying. And to top it off, you add that "typical" label. Sadly, that little rant says more about you than it does about me. I'll chalk it up to passion on your part. Transporting people who do not live here makes a huge difference. Why should other counties be funded by our citizens (when they are transported) and Fairfax not return the favor? Why should these counties gain $500 a pop, while their citizens create a burden on Fairfax's system, which in turn delay's care to the citizens of Fairfax? I wish they would charge where I live. Maybe the county could afford to create a structured Fire Department, instead of prescription stealing, drug dealing volunteers. OK, so you opened up the exchange by asserting that "thousands" of non Fairfax County residents are transported. We're still waiting for your cite on that one. Because simply stated, until you quantify that you're left with only an unsupported opinion that those hypothetical "thousands" make "a huge difference." Remember (and this is evident from even a cursory review of the budgets in question) much of the costs in running the thing aren't all that elastic. The crew gets paid the same regardless of whether they are on a call or not. Second, you can continue to cite other counties all you want, but that isn't an argument. Saying it's OK because other counties do it is lazy thinking. Third...drug dealing? That pit of yours continues to grow. With all the publicity this subject has been given, I doubt Fairfax will try to enforce the policy against those who can't pay. Now, if your willing to pay then you get what you deserve. Ah, but that's only the first half. Who decides who "can't" pay? Notice the big loophole left in the story.... If the County decides you, in fact, "can" pay then there's little one can do to keep them from collecting. Hence my point...it sounds magnanimous until you dissect what they are actually saying. I guess in order to keep the premiums down, you will not be calling 9-1-1 for a frivalous transport (the flu, feel me bads, etc.), right? Maybe we could reduce the premiums if we encourage those we know to quit calling 9-1-1 unless it is an emergency. I'm sure if you volunteer as much as you lead people to believe, you can tell 100 stories of 9-1-1 calls that you couldn't believe they called 9-1-1. And who is the patient to make the judgement with 100% accuracy that theirs is or isn't a "frivolous" call? It's not at all unreasonable to expect some pretty serious calls to be written off due to the worry of a $700 ambulance ride. How curious, by the way, that you mischaracterize what I said...if one had to pay for the charge out of pocket, then yes a marginal decrease is to be expected. You conflate that with accusing me of making that argument when third party payers are in the picture, which I did not do. And while 911 calls in and of themselves are certainly prone to abuse (we have a story on The Daily Page about one), they are generally tempered by the dispatch (a 911 call doesn't automatically result in the dispatch of an ambulance.). And remember, I'm talking margins here. BINGO! Isn't embelzzement a huge problem in volunteer systems? I believe a few years ago, the Annandale Volunteers had the biggest money earning night, the first night after their President left. Hum, convient? Doesn't Bingo just enable the volunteers to make and spend money without ever having to account for it? When was the last time the Dunn Loring VFD was audited? You guys don't conform to any standard when it comes to income and expense. There is no requirement to produce documentation for funds. Yet you guys consistently persuade the public into believing that without you the department would wilter away. I think you are decieving the public just as much as the County is. Ah, so not not only am I a typical lying, drug-dealing volunteer, but I'm also an embezzler. You're digging the hole pretty deep there and making claims with no supporting evidence. For instance, how do you know there is no requirement to produce documentation for funds (there were where I was)? How do you know there are no standards for accounting (ditto)? Frankly, you don't. You're tossing around baseless accusations while accusing ME of ignorance. Sad. And funny. But mostly idiotic. |
| # April 4th, 2005 1:10 PM JohnTant |
And nowhere did I say without volunteers the department would "wither" away. However, I do say that volunteers do a great job supplementing the existing infrastructure. I dispute the notion that they are a "drain" on resources. For Badini's sake, I even showed you the 2004 budget where volunteer expenses made up 0.86% of the total expense! Ignored by you, I can't help but notice, in your rush to paint with a very broad brush. Good job.
When it comes to the volunteers, it's the same problem everywhere. It's not like the old days! You guys have to work for a living, just like everyone else. By nature you're unreliable when called, especially in an all volunteer department. I remember a time when the house siren would sound and volunteers were actually allowed to leave work to answer the call. Now the only ones who respond during normal hours are 16 year olds who are on summer break from school or old guys that look like they just got dumped out of Sunrise. The days of volunteers being able to support the 9-1-1 service are coming to a close. Sorry, but they no longer have the impact on saving lives that they once did. Well, I hate to (again) burst your bubble but many of the paid staff in my experience had to hold down second jobs in order to make ends meet. It's hard to typify that as "reliable" using your criteria. To educate you a little more, the volunteer protocols we used called for the volunteers to commit to a particular period of time and to physically be in the station during that time period. This is not like "the old days" when a phone call would go out to the people's houses and they'd show up at the scene in their bathrobe with cover. No, we were actually in the station waiting for calls, while in the meantime learning the layouts of the trucks and/or playing Gran Turismo. Other departments may differ, but again that's a specific management issue and not a general one. As for training, we went through the same stuff the paid guys did. Well, most of us...I was EMT only so I didn't get the fun of going through the burn building. Don't worry, I have educated my family enough to know when to call 9-1-1 and when not to. Charge is irrelevant, which I think you will find with most people. Well, it's nice that you're also taking the time to educate them about volunteer firefighters typically being lying, drug-addled embezzlers. That's a great way to instill a sense of public service. And once again, my concern isn't so much the charging of the service (it's only irrelevant when you don't have to pay it and you're on the margin) as it is the double dipping. So what your rants boil down to is an excuse to bash volunteers and not out of any sincere comment on the post in question. |